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Descriptions of Canned Stops
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/8/2011 9:38 PM (#3060)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Fellow TradeTight members:

Would anyone know a handy user-friendly reference that contains descriptions (verbal or pictoral) of all the canned stops that are provided on OmniTrader and VisualTrader? This might be in a user-manual or in a file contained with OT/VT.

Thanks
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/9/2011 5:47 PM (#3061 - in reply to #3060)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Fellow TradeTight Members:

OK , I looked through a lot of PDF's and other Nirvana Source Material and came up dry. I could have sworn that at some point in the past I had a printed manual describing all the Nirvana canned stops. I did come across a .pdf I myself made (but I sure don't know where the source material came from) and I have attached it here.

My search for this information was prompted by trying to understand the Trailing Profit Stop which I show a screen shot of in OT below. As it is shown, my best guess is that the stop becomes activated after a 1 ATR Profit Threshold is achieved by forming a 0.5 ATR cushion initially (the light grey line in the picture). It then continues to follow the price action up relative to the greatest gain achiieved by some Nirvana voodoo that requires a 14 ATR Periods input (the green line). But I was hoping someone could provide a better explanation of what the heck was going on here.

(Trailing Profit Stop in OmniTrader.png)




Edited by ThomasHelget 10/9/2011 5:51 PM

Attachments
Attachments OmniTrader Signals, Orders, and Stops.pdf (122KB - 20 downloads)
Attachments Trailing Profit Stop in OmniTrader.png (26KB - 3 downloads)
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JimDean
Posted 10/9/2011 10:10 PM (#3062 - in reply to #3060)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Code for TP + FL stop
http://tradetight.org/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=485

Explanation for TPS
http://tradetight.org/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=203

I can probably dig up code for the TPS clone by itself - but the combined code includes its logic so that might do it for you.

Let me know if you have further questions. Usually things like the (simple) canned stops can be figured out by experimentally duplicating them in OLang.
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DerekGoodyer
Posted 10/10/2011 3:25 AM (#3063 - in reply to #3061)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Tom,

There is a 10MB+ .pdf on the "Trade Management - Key to Trading Sucess CD1" - not sure if it is what you remember seeing? Can't attach to forum as file is too big but could send via e-mail/SendThisFile if it is of use/interest?

Edited by DerekGoodyer 10/10/2011 3:47 AM
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/10/2011 9:39 AM (#3065 - in reply to #3062)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Jim:

Thanks, I have all that information in the contents of the Help file attached to OT. See the screen shot below. My confusion was with the ATR. But, now I think I get it. The Threshold value is 1 ATR of price action to activate the stop.

Derek:

Was the file you mentioned a Nirvana file. That is where I saw the descriptions of the various canned stops. If not, my main interest is in the Nirvana supplied stop at the moment. Thanks,

(Trailing Profit Stop Definition.png)



Attachments
Attachments Trailing Profit Stop Definition.png (20KB - 4 downloads)
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DerekGoodyer
Posted 10/10/2011 9:12 PM (#3073 - in reply to #3065)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Tom,

The PDF is part of an old instructional set from Nirvana on Trade Management which is a Jeff Drake Video that looks at types of stops available in OmniTrader. FYI I have attached a screen clip of the files in CD1 of the Trade Management CD which shows the 10.3MB PDF - a 58 page slide set.

(TradeMgtCD1.PNG)




Edited by DerekGoodyer 10/10/2011 9:38 PM

Attachments
Attachments TradeMgtCD1.PNG (14KB - 12 downloads)
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/11/2011 8:42 AM (#3076 - in reply to #3073)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Derek:

Yes, I would very much like to view that .pdf.

I have sent you my e-mail address via a message on this forum.
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/11/2011 12:53 PM (#3079 - in reply to #3076)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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All:

Some new stops have been added to Pre-Release 4C.

(New Stops in Pre-Release 4C.png)



Attachments
Attachments New Stops in Pre-Release 4C.png (57KB - 4 downloads)
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JimDean
Posted 10/11/2011 1:50 PM (#3080 - in reply to #3079)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Please note ... about the new canned stops ... I've not investigated them AT ALL, but I'm 95% sure they are intended for use with Options trades.
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ThomasHelget
Posted 10/11/2011 2:38 PM (#3081 - in reply to #3080)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Jim:

Well, that's a bummer for us stock and ETF traders!
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KeithParsons
Posted 10/17/2011 11:03 AM (#3107 - in reply to #3060)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Hi Tom,
I noted your thread and thought my "libary" on all of O.T. stops that I have viewed in the past few months may be of possible assistance to you. I have taken the liberty of copying some of Jim's work plus others at the end of it.

For a beginner like myself on O.T. - there is just so much to grasp. But if I can master it - then for sure I will improve my trading.

Regards,

Transferred by on 10/17/2011, Original Author: Thomas Helget - 10/8/2011, Original Title: Description of Canned Stops

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KeithParsons
Posted 4/13/2012 9:12 AM (#3528 - in reply to #3080)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Hi Jim,
I noted this thread a few months back. Part of the comment in this thread has now come into full realisation to me.

For me, the stop / exit sector is an area of extreme importance as I intend trading via OT Order / Trade Manager & Trade Plan blocks in the near future. I have therefore and so as to fully understand this sector gone and listed a number of stop / exit threads found in TradeTight. I now print each one for filing in an A4 box file for stops only. This in the future will help me for immediate reference and of course reminders

I have already printed those shown with a brown block attached. (apologies - have saved under PDF - cannot find in the threads what it states what excel should be saved under. I have seen it before)

What has jolted me this pm is that "the new canned stops" are for use in Options trades only. You mention you are 95% sure of this.

My questions are:

1)Is it ONLY the stops Tom shows above in yellow i.e. Added Above Price Stop that are for Options?
2) In my Trade Manager - condition AND Trade Plan sections I ONLY have these stops:
1) Fixed Loss Pivot Point
2) MZ Fixed Loss Stop 1
3) MZ Fixed Loss Stop 2
4) MZ Fixed Profit Stop
5) No Condition & OmniScript
Are these then the only stop / exits for Trade Plan and Manager ?

I am now assuming that the many stop / exit explanations you give can only be used in the Order section for share trading. That Trade Plan does not have the stop / exit range that Orders have (30 Exit Stops in my Orders block).

Lastly, I have been wanting to ask this question before but felt a bit foolish posting it. I however have recently asked two (2) other O.T. members and they also do not know.

What does the term "canned" mean ?

As always any support will be appreciated,







Transferred by on 4/13/2012, Original Author: Tom Helget - 10/11/2011, Original Title: Description of Canned Stop

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JimDean
Posted 4/13/2012 7:05 PM (#3529 - in reply to #3528)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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"Canned" refers strictly to something that is provided within the program package, or a plugin sold for the program. That is, the tool originates from Nirvana and is only "fully known" to them, and therefore strictly speaking can only be supported authoritatively by them.

More loosely, it can refer to a stop or system or indicator or other tool whose "inner workings" are not fully documented and exposed. This is sometimes referred to as a "black box" (totally mysterious, few or no user-options) or a "gray box" (only loosely explained, with some user-options). Most systems and stops that Nirvana provides are "canned gray boxes" - as are all but the "base package" indicators.

So, when I or anyone else who's not a Nirvana developer discuss a "canned" stop, it's guesswork - often pretty good guesses, based on lots of testing or on hints given by N staff, etc. but guesses nonetheless.

Otoh, when systems or stops or indicators etc are written in OLang or OScript, the author can and should fully explain its workings. Just passing on the code to someone else does a good job of documenting it, since it's "open source".

Re the various stops and trade plans - from memory - the only Stops that are dedicated for Options are the ones that have the word "Position" in their names - as best I recall. Or, maybe those can also be used with stocks - I have not tested them yet. Re Trade Plans - the ones dedicated to Options are very clearly separated by an Options tab - they all have OPTIONS in their names.

The actual stops and trade plans that are installed differs by user, depending on what plugins he has purchased.
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KeithParsons
Posted 4/14/2012 2:45 AM (#3530 - in reply to #3529)
Subject: Descriptions of Canned Stops



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Thank u

Transferred by on 4/14/2012, Original Author: Tom Helget - 10/11/2011, Original Title: Description of Canned Stop

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