Search | User Listing Vidsite | Calendars | Quotes
Home Page ->  OT ToolBox Modules -> Strategy Wizard -> View ThreadLogon (or Register, or Join TradeTight)

You are logged in as a limited-access Guest.To join TradeTight, first read the info in the Organization & Content room, then click the link above. 

1 Timothy 6:9-10 (NIV) … People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.  For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


Why Strategy Wizard is a must?
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 msgs/pg]
Jump to room :
RoyWild
Posted 1/15/2011 12:27 PM (#1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Veteran

Posts: 210
100100
Location:
USA: AZ, Phoenix
Hi Jim

First Happy New Year.

Second - fantastic post - Trading Coach!

Third - I dont have Strategy Wizard and I always denied buy into it since in my mind anything I will do with it - will be entirely curve fittting my strategy - where Im ensuring that I find the right parameters for each indicator, strategy, trade plan that will work in the past. So there is a huge risk into using SW.

BUT - it seems based on you post about TRading Coach - that you definitely think is the best thing we can do to impove our strategies. Can you pls help us to understand why SW is a must and what needs to happen to be use properly and avoid misuse.

Thank you so much

Duxx
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JimDean
Posted 1/15/2011 3:36 PM (#1334 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Owner/Admin

Posts: 3925
2000100050010010010010025
Location:
USA: GA, Lawrenceville
Long answer possible here - I'll try to hit the high points.

Yes ... SW can be used in a way that results in curve-fitting and unrealistic results. But most any powerful tool can be abused if you try hard enough. So, that is NOT in my opinion a reason not to use it ... it is a reason to UNDERSTAND HOW to use it, though!

THE major benefit of SW is in the 2D and 3D charts it presents, showing the relationship of the tested parameters vs the impact on performance. This is an easy-to-understand tool for "sensitivity analysis". I was EXTREMELY happy to see SW come out with this ... I had pestered Ed for several years about the need for it. These charts help PREVENT you from accidentally doing the "BAD" kind of curve fitting ... that is, the charts tell you if the "sweet spot" parameter you have found is a "unique-case spike", or if it's just the best place in a "range" of "pretty good values".

But there are many many other benefits. SW allows you to test the entire Strategy interactively, across a full Focus List of symbols, in contrast to OT's automated optimization method that tests only one symbol at a time. Thus you can and SHOULD use SW to determine what the "safe and reasonable range" is for the various parameters, so that your development-process does not accidentally home in on a fluke-setting.

SW also, via the sensitivity analysis, helps you figure out WHICH parameters actually MATTER when it comes to the performance of your strategy. You will often find yourself surprised that some things you thot were important, really make little difference ... and other things that you thot were minor, have a big impact.

The other HUGE benefit to SW is that it SAVES YOU TIME. If you want to learn the kinds of things that I've mentioned, SW's **automated processing** of the test-bed allows you to set it up, let your machine run all night (or for days on end ;~) and walk away.

Yup, for some folks stuff like this does not matter. But for others, it's "sine qua non" ;~)
(that's Latin for "it's da BOMB, man")
Top of the page Bottom of the page
RoyWild
Posted 1/15/2011 3:43 PM (#1335 - in reply to #1334)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Veteran

Posts: 210
100100
Location:
USA: AZ, Phoenix
Great explanation Jim

Will then purchase the tool nxt week.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
TimLeung
Posted 1/16/2011 2:14 AM (#1336 - in reply to #1334)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Spectator

Posts: 5
0
Location:
USA: CA, Santa Clara
Jim,

Is every member participating in the DO project required to have SW or you would run the SW first and pass down the parameters for testing?

Tim
_____________
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JimDean
Posted 1/16/2011 4:55 AM (#1337 - in reply to #1336)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Owner/Admin

Posts: 3925
2000100050010010010010025
Location:
USA: GA, Lawrenceville
Hi Tim:

SW is a critical component in the process, and is the first step. Part of the reason for needing a large group of people to accomplish the task is that there are extensive upfront SW runs required. 

So, yes, owning SW is a requirement for working with the group. I'm sorry if I did not make this clear earlier. 

As you probably know, I recommend SW as the second most important upgrade to OT, after getting Pro. The work we are doing in the project is exactly why it's at the top of my recommended-plugin list. 
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DerekGoodyer
Posted 4/2/2012 6:36 PM (#3510 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Spectator

Posts: 5
0
Location:
Australia: , Roseville, NSW
Jim, I do not own SW and am considering the new version. I wondered if you have any comments on version 3.0? Also - Nirvana documentation is generally, to use your words "terse", - what is the quality of documentation for the version that you currently use?

Edited by DerekGoodyer 4/2/2012 6:39 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JimDean
Posted 4/3/2012 5:53 PM (#3511 - in reply to #3510)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Owner/Admin

Posts: 3925
2000100050010010010010025
Location:
USA: GA, Lawrenceville
Hi, Derek ...

Sorry about the delay in replying. I just received SW 3.0 and have not exercised it yet, so my comments will be general in nature re SW's importance. As I see it, what they've done primarily in 3.0 is to "bring it up to date" with the NTB's and new "blocks" that have been accumulating in the arsenal since 2.0 ... a good thing. I wish that the Trade Plan block was added, but since it acts so differently than the others do, I can sorta understand why it was not in the mix.

SW is essential for ANYONE who does not want to just use canned systems and strategies "right out of the box", with zero modifications. It's NOT just for OLang-focused folks ... it's got across-the-board benefit for both canned and custom systems and strategies.

There are two main things that the core module (since 1.0) does that make the tool essential:

1. It *automates massive amounts of testing* so that you can try out many different variants on your strategy, focusing on almost any part of it, without having to hover over the machine and continually modify inputs and press buttons and twiddle thumbs for literally hours or days on end. 3.0 has apparently added to this flexibility by allowing the iteration-sequence thru a parameter to use explicit comma-delimited lists as well as the traditional min-to-max-via-inc approach.

2. It *organizes the results of the tests* into some very useful tabular and graphic formats ... I particularly like to use the 3D graph that demo's the interaction of two different inputs re a specified performance metric. It's easy to switch the inputs, and switch the metrics. It helps you see whether the "apparent best" combo of parameters are a fluke, or are reliably stable.

Version 2.0 added a "cute" additional tool that probably appeals a lot to folks who like to try out wild and crazy stuff without a lot of thought being required ahead of time ... it examines your library for all the various blocks used in your strategies, and "shuffles the blocks" around automatically. Personally, I don't have much use for this right now ... but I can see the benefit even for someone like myself, at a future time.

Version 3.0 adds NTB ... which I'm guessing will take a few more pre-releases to get all the wrinkles ironed. NTB is a whole new world ... and as the brochure points out, it brings an additional degree-of-freedom into the mix that earlier SW versions could not handle ... the underlying bars behind the NTB's.

I've consistently said over the years that THE #1 most valuable upgrade for OT was to go to Pro, since it opens an infinite universe via OLang. And I've consistently said the #2 most valuable upgrade is to add SW. My opinion and recommendation still holds.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
DerekGoodyer
Posted 4/3/2012 6:28 PM (#3512 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Spectator

Posts: 5
0
Location:
Australia: , Roseville, NSW
Jim,
Thanks for the comprehensive overview of SW. I have bought the plugin whith the attractive pricing for Club members. I will be interested to follow your views after you have had the opportunity to run version 3.0.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarcBekaert
Posted 4/4/2012 5:42 AM (#3513 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Friend

Posts: 33
25
Location:
Belgium: , Waardamme (Bruges)
Just tested the SW3 onto a Realtime test profile ( not a eod profile, not a RT profile, but a test profile)
and it doesn't work
and thats what i use all the time to test & optimize Realtime strategies
iteration 1 does work, but from iteration 2 on you get all zero's

Regards
Marc
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JimDean
Posted 4/4/2012 5:52 AM (#3514 - in reply to #3513)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Owner/Admin

Posts: 3925
2000100050010010010010025
Location:
USA: GA, Lawrenceville
Like I said - probably some initial-release wrinkles since the NTB architecture calls for a lot of internal recoding. The Test Profile is not as commonly used by customers as the other types - although it is EXTREMELY valuable. So it might have been overlooked in the testing. There may be a broader problem with NTB implementation and the Test Profile - I have not had time to test it yet.

Marc, please post the details about your issue on the N forums and I'm sure they will work to resolve it. They will need to know a lot more than you mentioned here - probably it would be best to zip up your profile and strategy and any accompanying custom stuff so that they can duplicate it.

If anyone wants to get it while it's inexpensive, and you DON'T have ver 1 or 2, I suggest you call sales and also request a free license and download link for SW 2 when you buy ver 3. That way you will have a reliable copy to use immediately (but without the new features). Or, just get it now and be patient for a week or three as they fix it. It's a very important plugin and you might as well get it at a good price while you can.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarcBekaert
Posted 4/4/2012 6:10 AM (#3515 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Friend

Posts: 33
25
Location:
Belgium: , Waardamme (Bruges)
Hi Jim
It's already done
I send Barry an email and a copy of my test profile, strategy en SW.otd, so he can simulate the problem
works perfectly onto eod profiles,

What i'm still missing is to have the ability to optimize several parametes together for the same optimized values.
Now we are not able to take 2 or more parameters and let them be optimized for the same parameter steps
example , you have a strategy with 2 systems (Relaltive Strenght index and the money flow index) and we want to optimize the parameter for the RSI and for the MFI together for example form 9 till 25
in steps of 2, this will take only 9 optimization steps, know it take us 9*9 or 81 optimization steps

Marc
Top of the page Bottom of the page
JimDean
Posted 4/4/2012 6:37 AM (#3516 - in reply to #3515)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Owner/Admin

Posts: 3925
2000100050010010010010025
Location:
USA: GA, Lawrenceville
Hi Marc

Please let us know when you get answers re the Test Profile issue.

I know what you mean re the 9 versus 9*9 situation. Unfortunately there are so many possible combinations of things like that which might be desired, I think they would have to change the entire SW interface to properly address it. Maybe SW 4 will take that need into account. At least it's possible to "walk away" from the machine while the extra 8*9 runs are being done. ;-]
Top of the page Bottom of the page
MarcBekaert
Posted 4/4/2012 12:45 PM (#3519 - in reply to #1329)
Subject: Why Strategy Wizard is a must?



Friend

Posts: 33
25
Location:
Belgium: , Waardamme (Bruges)
Got another bug in SW3
the new BT/FT Profit Factor is not exported into the output TXT file
But Barry replied that both bugs will be fixed in the next PR

Marc
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 msgs/pg]
( E-mail a Link | Printer Version | Search Room )

Owner of site: Jim Dean -- Forum content is confidential, and may not be distributed without written permission.