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OmniVest versus OmniTrader
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JimDean
Posted 3/24/2014 2:55 PM (#5707)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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Here is my understanding of this:

1. OmniVest is a separate product, indeed a separately incorporated company, that does not include OT or VT. If someone buys into OVest, they do not have access to OT or VT unless they also buy those products.

2. Nirvana has been offering OVest to NClub members for a very low initial "lifetime" price ... so NClub members are receiving preferential treatment. But technically speaking, the NClub "entity" is separate from OVest. ONLY NClub members can utilize ARM4-based strategies in OVest.

3. OT is the primary "toolkit" that Nirvana uses to develop OVest strategies, so it's likely that there will be some OT improvements simply to make OVest strat development by N staff more effective and efficient ... and so that user-based Elite Trader development can feed OVest in a useful manner.

4. I'm guessing that Nirvana will decide to make SOME of the #3 improvements available as a part of OT, even for non-OVest customers, but I'd guess that those improvements might come with a fee, like a plugin or something. It makes sense to me that Nirvana would try to "leverage" their OVest development work into extra OT-related sales, if they can.

5. OT will never, ever have the "platform" capabilities of OVest, simply because OVest is ONLY practical through a truly MASSIVE multiple-server, cloud based platform. The huge advantage of OVest is the dynamic combination of multiple strategies each with its own Lists and conditions, in such a way as to squeeze out the most efficient and profitable use of whatever money is in the user's account.

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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RossKovacs
Posted 3/24/2014 9:57 PM (#5708 - in reply to #5707)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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Jim, I agree with your points and I would add another.
You wrote, "The huge advantage of OVest is the dynamic combination of multiple strategies each with its own Lists and conditions, in such a way as to squeeze out the most efficient and profitable use of whatever money is in the user's account."
Another huge advantage of OVest is that it can be run on multiple processors.
When Ed was asked in one of the seminars about modifying OT to run on a PC's multiple processors, he disparaged the idea.
Ed said that OVest's basis on servers will always make OVest a better platform versus running OT on a PC.
So we can forget about OT ever being modified to run on a PC's multiple processors.

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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JimDean
Posted 3/24/2014 10:13 PM (#5709 - in reply to #5708)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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I recall the question being raised in the context of trying to get OT to totally emulate OVest - ie running hundreds of strategies across 14 years of all us stocks, repeatedly.

That was what Ed took issue with. I would agree.

However, OT is the platform on which the core development work must be done for strategies. Dynamic lists must be integrated, and afaik will be but in a different manner than OScan. OVest strats and their historical metrics must also be integrated but again, in a manner different than typical PortSim - afaik that also will be done.

It's necessary for N staff development, and for Elite Trader development.

So - while I'm 99% sure that OT won't be rebuilt to try to emulate OVest as a whole, I am fully confident that OT will be enhanced adequately to serve as a viable ongoing development tool, so that strategies which come out of it will mesh well with the OVest tools and environment.

Ed did not say that OT would never be modified to utilize more multicore or 64bit. His response, I believe, was to dispel any belief that OVest itself might live on a local machine. My guess is that core architectural changes to OT are expected, ONCE the revenue stream from OVest is well in place, to fund that work.

This clarification is something that I'm pretty sure about.

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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RoyWild
Posted 3/25/2014 12:37 AM (#5710 - in reply to #5709)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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Thanks for the detail explanation on OVest.

For me the price is a little bit of a deterrent. Having spend thousands already between Nirvana Club and plug ins, just cant seem to justify the price tag as of now.
Maybe with time I can see the benefits.



Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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JimDean
Posted 3/25/2014 5:43 AM (#5712 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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I truly sympathize with the "pain factor" of the investment cost for trading software. Like many of you, over the years I've bought then later put aside thousands of dollars of software, in the search to find a more effective, balanced, powerful toolkit. And, a company that I can comfortably put my trust in. That is why I've homed in on Nirvana.

If you look thru the thousands of posts I've done on the various forums, you'll see that it's rare for me to "promote" particular Nirvana products - mainly because the needs and goals and resources of each person are different.
Nirvana is a very CREATIVE company - as a result there is a huge selection of things to choose from. I try to limit my recommendations to options that I think are likely to be highly valuable to many types of people. I've consistently promoted OT Pro, for instance, since it opens up unlimited worlds for customization of Indicators, Systems and Stops - enhancing OT across the board - and leveraging almost all of the plugins by opening the door to incorporating their specialized function-calls (indicators) into your own way of doing things.
I've also promoted Strategy Wizard as the most valuable plugin, since it saves huge amounts of time by automating experiments, and it too "leverages" other canned and custom strategies by allowing you to tune them. Through that process, you discover hidden interactions - ones to avoid and ones to focus on.
I've occasionally promoted a few of the other "method" plugins like Seasonality and GroupTrader, but they're in a third tier compared to Pro and SW.

I say all that to say this: I've come to believe that OmniVest's value falls into the "great for almost everyone" category - equally to the value of OT, Pro, SW, Seas, and GT combined. It's a different beastie - addressing the BIG picture of money management and risk control and portfolio management re diversity and hedging and market conditions and group rotation. Taken together, those capabilities are more important, even to a "details" guy like me, than my personal intellectual hesitancy using "graybox" systems.

OmniVest is still growing - but it's past the "toddler" stage now and really coming into its own over the next several weeks and months. It will IMHO "put Nirvana on the map" in ways that OT and VT could never accomplish. It holds the key to appealing to hundreds of thousands of people (if they wake up to smell the roses).

That is why I'm taking the time to encourage y'all to get into it now. The cost of doing so will definitely rise over time - and the door of opportunity to get lifetime access and unlimited strategies will close as it's popularity grows.

So I hope y'all will forgive me for "bubbling on" about OmniVest. It's cost is nontrivial, but definitely worth every penny. I've come to think of OT as the laboratory, and OV as the bank.

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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JimDean
Posted 3/26/2014 1:42 PM (#5714 - in reply to #5712)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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Someone who has been debating whether OVest is adequately sufficient unto itself for him, wondering whether OVest negates his need to really master the ins and outs of OT, just replied (by email) to my prior post here, saying:
... regarding your comment "I've come to think of OT as the laboratory, and OV as the bank"... Being a particular hands-on type guy myself, I can see clearly now that discarding or bypassing my laboratory (OT) would not be a good idea! Time to get the OT instruction manuals out :)

I thought this was a particularly insightful way of looking at it. Further to that ...

SO much in the trading world depends on the "bent" of the person who's doing the trading. There's no "best way" (altho there are a lot of "bad" ways). IMHO the important thing, re detail and understanding of stuff, is a person's comfort level and trust level. I often quote the maxim "I'm from Missouri" ( the ShowMe state ) ... it's sort of a curse ... I find it difficult to be comfortable without understanding the things that are relevant and significant to the issue.

OV Systems, taken individually *by themselves*, are somewhat "uncomfortable" for me (the "details" guy). I considered OVest Systems originally to be "blackboxes", but with V2 & upcoming "transparent" features I now think of them as "grayboxes with a silver wrapping" ... the two reasons being ...

1. Since the OV paradigm "melds" many Strategies together, the individual significance of the "black" nature of each System (part of the "Strategy" = System+Dir'n+List+Condition) is "wrapped in silver", and my confidence level is augmented by the ability to define direction, lists, and filter conditions, plus the WELL understood and user-controllable processes that OVest entails.

2. The fact that OVest mixes many strategies together dynamically, reduces the "significance" of lack of transparency of any given System in it. It's like adding two numbers together ... one billion, plus 13, is still for all intents and purposes one billion.

Btw, the terminology is awkward. An OT "Strategy" is a "System" in OVest ... and OVest Strategy is that System plus the qualifiers you add. Maybe they will change the terms later on to reduce confusion.

Understanding OT is valuable and a necessity, when you want to dig in, and be creative, and know what's going on inside-out with a strat, BECAUSE you created it. Or when you just GOTTA do it your way. When Elite Trader is activated, and able to feed custom Strat's to OVest, that will fully engage OT in the process.

This is a perfect example of how the Aristotle-quote in my signature-line should be applied ...
"It is the mark of an educated man, and a proof of his culture, that in every problem he addresses,
he looks for only the amount of precision that its nature permits, and its solution requires."

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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JohnWolfraad
Posted 3/26/2014 6:23 PM (#5715 - in reply to #5714)
Subject: OmniVest versus OmniTrader



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Also when we can upload our own OT strategies it means we can use OV to trade and monitor.

The bank can look after the day to day issues of trading, whilst I fiddle about in the lab!

Thread moved by JimDean on 8/4/2014 8:54 AM from Markets & Methods > OmniVest, Money Mgmt & Risk Control > OmniVest versus OmniTrader

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